3CR
 Community Radio 855am

THE RADIO-ACTIVE SHOW

With Eric Miller, Ila Marks and Cherrie

Saturday at 10.00 am

13th November 1999

ConRadSat 18.04 - 18.32 (Thursday 18th November)

Cherrie Eaton: Hello and Welcome to the Radioactive Show brought to you by the Sustainable Energy and Anti-Uranium Service. My name is Cherrie Eaton and with me in the studio is Eric Miller. The Radioactive Show is a weekly program bringing you news and information on nuclear, peace and energy issues.

Over the last three weeks the Radioactive Show has been on the road with the Nuclear Free Ways Project and we will hear about that later in the show when Eric interviews Ila Marks about the exciting and very successful three week trip through rural NSW.

While on the road one of the most often asked questions on uranium mining from people in the street was - What's happening up at Jabiluka? - So first up Eric asks Dave Sweeney from the Australian Conservation Foundation the same question.

Eric Miller: Dave, just catching up on Jabiluka, there has been quite a few things happening with the Extraordinary General Meeting of North Limited, what happened with that?

Dave Sweeney: Well it has been a very busy time with Jabiluka recently. North Limited was forced to hold an Extraordinary General Meeting in late October in Melbourne at the Concert Hall. What happened there was over 120 shareholders of North combined to form a group, a lobby group within the shareholding of the company called North Ethical Shareholders. They excerised their right under the Corporation Act to called an Extraordinary General Meeting to discuss the implications of the companies involvement in the Jabiluka process. So basically what you had was a series of resolutions that were put forward by the North Ethical Shareholders which called for greater transparency in the companies operations, for greater reportage, for an independent assessment, financial assessment of Jabiluka, and the project and its viability. And for a renewed and updated series of sustainable principles which the companies would operate it activities around.

Now, those resolutions were spoken to by a range of shareholders and speakers invited by the shareholder, they were then spoken against by the board. They were beaten, obviously they didn't get accepted and that's largely because roughly about 90% of the shareholders stock of any company is basically at the discretion of the board. … It's large institutional investors who tick the box that gives the board their proxy and how to vote. And the chair in a most irregular fashion made that clear before the vote. He said, "I would just like to inform you that we hold the overwhelming number of shares and the overwhelming number of proxies." It was quite an interesting display of contempt of process.

But what was interesting was not only this happened, that 125 shareholders, many of whom are significant shareholders supported and initiated this and got it happening. But also when it went to the vote there was a share stock with 12 and a half million shares, so we are basically so we are talking about 35 million dollars worth of the stock of that company, voted for that company to have an independent examination of Jabiluka. For that company to adopt a series of ecologically sustainable principles that included moving away from uranium mining for that company to adopt more open and transparent policies in recording, accounting and procedures.

Now 12 and a half million shares is not just like pocket handkerchief, it's not two greenies with one share each, it’s a significant move. I think that it took the company by surprise at the concern of a range of shareholders over a range of areas. Not just environmental, not just the companies perception, not just what's the impact on Aboriginal People, but very, very hard nosed self interested questions of what will this do over the next ten years to my dividend. I think for that purpose alone it sent a clear message to the company. It's part of a wider message that's going around all sectors of the community about Jabiluka not being a viable or desirable project.

Many of the listeners would have known that for along time now there has been an increasing bogging down of the Jabiluka process from North's perspective, or from ERA's perspective. That has recently, in the last couple of weeks, had an absolutely significant point. Where there has now been formal acceptance by the company that the Ranger milling option, (that's taking ore that's dug up at Jabiluka, trucking it up to Ranger and milling it there), that's off the agenda for at least 5 years. Effectively that means it's off the agenda forever. The company is in considerable difficulty now. It's in a situation where it has to make a decision, if it wants to proceed with the Jabiluka project, to build a mill at Jabiluka. They have always based their thinking on the fact that they would be able to use the existing Ranger mill and that they could cart the ore to that existing facility and process it there.

What has happened now is that tradition owners, the Mirrar People, have the right of veto over … because Ranger is on their country. … There was a deed of transfer that transferred all of the mineral leases, and the agreements and all other matters from the previous owner Pan Continental, to the current owner ERA, there was a clause that said, "traditional owners have the right of veto over the use of the Ranger mill to mill ore sourced from outside Ranger". … To ensure that this did not become a de facto mill for eternity for uranium operations in the entire region. So they have that ability, they have used that ability, they have said rather compellingly, it's not on. So the company is now in a situation where it is all dressed up, but nowhere to mill.

They have the permission to build a mill at Jabiluka, but the thing is by company's estimates it would cost at lease 155 million dollars to do that. By other estimates it is 200 or 225 million dollars. The project today has cost around 180 (million), so it would be a 100% capital increase on a project that is already looking shaky. The economics of it are shaky. ERA announced at their recent Annual General Meeting in Sydney on October 21 that they warned shareholders and investors that the year ahead would be difficult. That there was a sluggish international uranium market and that would continue. That their profits would be down, that their sales would be down, that their production would be down and that they would be sacking 50% of their corporate staff.

Now the company is not travelling well, the share price is depressed, its product is depressed. It is not in good shape and now it is in a position where if it wants to get this project up going to have to commit 100% more than it budgeted for. And the word very clearly going around is that significant sectors in the market, and in that community, are saying this not a good idea.

It's turning from an investment into an ideology. You are not now making a profit you are trying to prove a point. And that's not good business.

There was a very interesting point in the Financial Review just recently which suggested that significant sections of the broking the community had advised North that it was better for them now to exit the Jabiluka project, than to continue and to preserve and to build a mill. Because if they build a mill, or attempt to go down that path, not only would it cost a lot of money. We would see no doubt significant new protest activity at what would be a major industrial construction in Kakadu. We would see continuing and escalating opposition from people in towns and cities around the country that want to see this project stopped.

We would see continuing opposition from traditional owners who have said to the company, they have made it very clear to the company in the last two weeks. That even if the company builds a mill at Jabiluka, it still has to use joint facilities at Ranger; a power plant, an acid plant, machinery sheds, other facilities. The traditional owners have said they will not give, THEY WILL NOT GIVE, consent for those joint facilities to be used.

So that would mean escalated costs, new assessments, new protests. The company is now in a position where after basically 42 or 44 months of trying to bulldoze this project through, of ignoring the concerns of the Australian community and the traditional owners, they're in a position were we said years ago they would get to. They now have to make a decision. They can step aside from this project, and say 'look that was costly, but we are not going to advance this project we have learnt from it, we are going to do things differently'. Or they can continue to throw good money after bad, they can continue to be vilified, they can continue to be the target of legal and political protest and economic action and the can continue to haemorrhage.

They are at a point now, this situation with the lack of a mill provides a juncture where North in particular, and Energy Resources of Australia, have an opportunity to choose. And it is very strongly our ask, and very strongly our advise that they chose to disengage from this most un-necessary and un-safe project. And we hope they do, that would be the best outcome for everyone. The last outcome everyone needs is more grief, more pressure, more division, we need to get on basically with healing that community, with healing that country, we certainly don't need another uranium mine.

North are in a position now where they can decide. The decision they make will show whether they are a company that's motivated by making money, or whether they are a company that's motivated by demonstrating that they are powerful. It's a key point in this campaign. It's really a tribute to the tenacity of the people campaigning against Jabiluka, and to the absolute commitment and conviction of the traditional owners in protecting their country that it has come to this point.

Eric Miller: The Northern Land Council have said that they are not going to negotiate for five years. Do you think that they will hold to this?

Dave Sweeney: Yeas, well, the Northern Land Council have a statutory obligation to take, and need ,and act upon, the direction of traditional owners. There has been an extremely clear direction and so I would imagine that the Northern Land Council would have no option but convey and act in accordance with that instruction. That's their mandate under the Aboriginal Land Rights Act so I'm sure the NLC is aware of its responsibilities and I'm sure that they will carry out those responsibilities with a high degree of professionalism.

Eric Miller: OK Dave thank you very much.

Dave Sweeney: Thank you Eric.

Cherrie Eaton: That was Dave Sweeney from the Australian Conservation Foundation giving us an up date on Jabiluka.

Three weeks on the road taking a huge mock nuclear radioactive transport trailer through rural NSW is something that could not go un-noticed by the people in the communities it visited. In the next interview Ila Marks tells us about the responses from people who were told that radioactive waste could very possibly be transported through their communities

The Nuclear Free Ways trailer, representing a nuclear waste transport castor, went from Canberra to Lucas Heights, then up through the Blue Mountains to Katoomba, Bathurst, Orange, Dubbo, Wilcannia and Broken Hill, then back to Melbourne through Mildura. It was a project organised by Friends of the Earth. Eric asks Ila Marks from the Friends of the Earth Anti-uranium Collective about this exciting anti-nuclear pilgrimage.

Eric Miller: Ila, you went on the Nuclear Freeways Project. What was the Nuclear Freeways Project?

Ila Marks: The Nuclear Freeways Project was five people who took a big mock up of a radioactive transporter across, through rural New South Wales. We started off at Canberra, then we took it to Sydney, to Lucas Heights to where the federal government wants to put a new nuclear reactor, and we took a our radioactive transporter through rural New South Wales on the route that could be the radioactive transport route.

Eric Miller: So you spent a number of days in Canberra? What did you do there?

Ila Marks: Yes, we were in Canberra about three days. We parked our mock radioactive transporter outside an industry conference, a nuclear industry conference and we sat there with a very clear anti-nuclear message and people from the conference, some of them came over and listened to our concerns. Particularly the expansion of the nuclear industry, and in this case we were talking about the new nuclear reactor in Sydney and the nuclear waste dump in South Australia.

Eric Miller: And you visited the universities there?

Ila Marks: Yes, that's right in Canberra we visited both the ANU and the Canberra University campus. And we set up stalls, we also have an interactive multimedia computer … information where people can come along and touch our screen and decide whether they are going to have a nuclear future or a nuclear free future. And then if they don't chose a nuclear free future they have to face the problems of waste, transport and the new nuclear reactor.

Eric Miller: Right. And then from Canberra you went to Sydney you said. Where did you in Sydney?

Ila Marks: In Sydney we spent one day outside the K Mart complex where we were in the car park with our mock radioactive transport and we also had an information stall. And that was a very interesting experience because we were in a suburb of southern Sydney. Very close to the proposed new reactor and the existing reactor at Lucas Heights and it was very heartening to listen to the responses of people who were in that shopping centre. They came up to us and expressed a lot of concerns about the new reactor going ahead.

The council in southern Sydney, that is the Shire of Sutherland are opposed to the new nuclear reactor and several of those councillors came up and visited our exhibition and display we had in the centre there.

Eric Miller: Then you went to Lucas Heights?

Ila Marks: Lucas Heights was very interesting, it was not a big mass demonstration or anything. It was a presence of local councillors and councillors from the surrounding suburbs as well. They all met there to show their concerns and opposition to the new nuclear reactor going ahead. There was a press conference, we had our big mock radioactive waste transporter on a trailer.

(Extracts from the Press Conference)

Genevieve Rankin: I would like to welcome the Mayor of Sutherland Shire, Ken Mac Donald, who is here this morning. And Councillor …….. who is representing, Councillor Peter Woods, from the Local Government Association. And her presence here shows the support of the New South Wales Local Government Association for this cause. We will call on Ken to speak briefly for a moment then we will cut the ribbon a little bit after that. Ken, thank you.

Ken Mac Donald: Well, thanks for turning up ladies and gentleman in this terrible weather. This issue is very close to the hearts of the people of Sutherland. People and our community have spoken out and said they don't want a new reactor at Lucas Heights. They don't want this place here to keep producing nuclear waste, for which as Genevieve said, there is not known guaranteed safe method of disposal for that material. It's irresponsible to build a new reactor here …… The present council is going to be very keen to get on with the task of opposing the building of a new reactor here and we want to stop it. Thanks very much.

Genevieve Rankin: Thanks very much Ken, and I think you can't over estimate the confidence the decision the new council has given the community. {The Council has donated money for the campaign against the reactor} It has really boosted our feelings that we can win this campaign.

Eric Miller: I believe Ian Cohen the State Green Member of New South Wales had a sling shot there?

Ila Marks Yes that was most amusing, he had an ancient medieval sling shot made out of bamboo poles and when he arrive and it look all rickety … and people had made yellow cake.

Eric Miller: This wasn't the yellow cake that came out of uranium mine, it was cake that was yellow?

Ila Marks: Yes it was a cake that yellow, that you could eat, it looked very appetising, but instead of us sitting around having a party we put it into the sling shot and fired it over the wire fence. It was the most amazing thing ever, nobody expected it to work. But, yes the yellow cake sailed through the air, over a cyclone fence with wire on the top that must have been three metres high and landed, splat in the driveway of Lucas Heights. So that was great, we were just giving them some of their own medicine.

Eric Miller: Did it make you feel good to sling this yellow cake across the fence.

Ila Marks: We all felt really terrific, there was a lot of cheering and yahooing as the yellow cake sailed over the fence.

(At the gate of Lucas Heights)

Ian Cohen: On the count of three. One, two, three - fire one - horray …. (cheering) OK load another one ………

Eric Miller: And then from Sydney you followed the route the waste could go, what was the first stop?

Ila Marks: We are not sure of the route the waste will go. We have written to the Minister and asked him what transport route they are going to take. He hasn't given us any clear indication, but one of the ways it could go is from Sydney up the Blue Mountains to Katoomba, then Bathurst, Orange, Dubbo, Broken Hill and then down into South Australia. So our first stop was Katoomba. And there we met with local environmentalist and they had organised for us to have a stall in the local shopping centre, again in the car park of a shopping centre. … And we were overwhelmed by the number of people coming up. The message that we gave the people was very easy and very clear … That government has a proposal to build a new nuclear reactor, all of the approvals have been given. It is just at the tendering stage. And they want to build a radioactive waste dump somewhere in the Woomera area of South Australia. They are very close to choosing a site, they have got it down to the last 6 sites, and if that goes ahead radioactive waste will be transported through a community, through many communities and Katoomba could be one of them. Not one person thought it was a good idea. Every one in the shopping centre opposed it and they were anxious and happy to take our information and they were asking us what could they do to stop it.

Our message wasn't "do something instantly". Our message was "we're giving you the information, you as a community decide what you can do." People were quite prepared to take that information on board. And I'm sure that if Katoomba, Bathurst, Orange, Dubbo, Broken Hill or Mildura are on the chosen transport route that those communities will be up in arms against it.

Eric Miller: The local council at Katoomba were concerned?

Ila Marks: At Katoomba we had visits from four council members, the Mayor, the Deputy Mayor and two other council members, and they were quite prepared to speak out against the nuclear reactor, the transport of radioactive waste and the waste dump.

Eric Miller: And you met with the environmentalists in the evening?

Ila Marks: We met with environmentalists, we were able to exchange campaign ideas and information and form friendships and networks. Networks are so important.

Eric Miller: And from there it was Bathurst and Orange and universities again, was it?

Ila Marks: From there we went to Bathurst and we were on campus all day there, we gave a talk there and we had a stall. Again it was the same story, they were interested, they wanted the information and they thought that transporting radioactive waste was a stupid idea. And they certainly didn't want it going through Bathurst. From there we went to Orange, there we spoke at a school, we spoke to four different classes, and that was very interesting again. The students were amazed that radioactive waste could be transported through Orange. They listened, took it in and asked some very interesting and penetrating question.

Eric Miller: You were contacting the media along the way and you got media coverage?

Ila Marks: The media was very interested, the media was interested in the mock radioactive transporter, because it is a very visual thing, it is so large, it has been put together by a crew of artists and trades people. So they were interested in the image but they were also interested in the story because where ever we went we had commercial and ABC radio, constantly, TV, as well as the local newspapers. The media person was run off his feet.

Eric Miller: So I suppose the same sort of reception was happening Dubbo and Broken Hill.

Ila Marks: Yes, that was where ever we went, Bathurst, Dubbo, Broken Hill, Mildura. All of those bigger centres where they had their media, the media came looking for us and several interviews were done at each of those places, plus television, we were on the news each night at each place we went to and the newspapers.

Eric Miller: So at Broken Hill the Council was pretty concerned there.

Ila Marks: At Broken Hill, they're a Nuclear Free Zone so the council were very concerned about the prospect of radioactive waste being transported through Broken Hill and the Darling area. It was interesting, it wasn't just the Council and environmentalists and Ministers of the Church that were interested in, and concerned about what was happening. It was also people in the local service station where we pulled up for petrol. They would say, "What's that?" So we would tell them, then they would want more information and want to sign a card opposing expansion to the nuclear industry and then they would want to buy a sticker. We travelled with stickers and information in the glove box of the car because it was all people that were interested.

Eric Miller: Now this project is ongoing, you have other trips planned, and can go any where in Australia if communities want it.

Ila Marks: If this trip has taught us anything it has taught us that people every where are opposed to the transport of radioactive waste and if you give them the information they are able to make up their own minds about it. And so it is extremely important that this radioactive mock nuclear transporter stays on the road. And yes, there are trips being planned, early in the New Year trailer will go to South Australia to continue the route, and for other communities that want it to visit, it is available.

Eric Miller: OK Ila, thank you very much.

Ila Marks: You're welcome.

Cherrie Eaton: Eric Miller taking to Ila Marks from Friends of the Earth about the Nuclear Free Ways trip that went though rural NSW with their trailer constructed to look like a nuclear waste transport cylinder. People who want to find out more about the Nuclear Free Ways Project and more about their travels through New South Wales can visit them at the Going Solar Fair being held at Hanging Rock, just outside Melbourne on the weekend of November the 27th and 28th.

That’s all from the Radioactive Show now being heard on the Community Radio Satellite Network. The Radioactive Show is produced in studios of 3CR. You are able to e-mail us if you have an issue you want raised or any comments about the programs, you will find us at ra3cr@hotmail.com And of course our web address www.sea-us.org.au

And you can read transcripts of the show at that address.

Transcript produced by Ila Marks - with much thanks!!!
Page last updated December 5, 1999.
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