3CR
 Community Radio 855am

THE RADIO-ACTIVE SHOW

With Eric Miller, Ila Marks and Cherrie

Saturday at 10.00 am

25th September 1999

ConRadSat 18.04 - 18.32 (Thursday 30th September)

Ila Marks: Hello and Welcome to the Radioactive Show brought to you by the Sustainable Energy and Anti-Uranium Service. My name is Ila Marks and with me in the studio is Eric Miller. The Radioactive Show is a weekly program bringing you news and information on nuclear, peace and energy issues.

Today we look at Walkabout Jag, a campaign initiative that came out of country Victoria and is going places. We hear about Walkabout Jag later in the show.

First up we take a look at the World Heritage decision and what it means to the Jabiluka campaign. Dave Sweeney from the Australian Conservation Foundation was in Paris for the World Heritage hearing last July. Eric spoke to Dave at his office in Melbourne and asked him what happened in Paris.

Dave Sweeney: From July 5 to 13 there was the World Heritage Bureau and the World Heritage Committee meeting in Paris and it was looking at the Jabiluka proposal and whether the proposal would hurt the world heritage values of Kakadu. The environment groups and the Gundjehmi Aboriginal Corporation, representing the Mirrar traditional owners, had both done a series reports and requests calling for the intervention from the World Heritage Committee. Saying that the Kakadu World Heritage Area should be put on the World Heritage in danger list because of the impacts of Jabiluka.

The World Heritage Committee had commissioned a high powered and high profile committee of inquiry which had visited the site and visited other parts of Australia, Darwin and Canberra and else where in October of last year, 1998. And then the Australian government had done this very high powered and well-financed lobbying campaign to stop Jabiluka, or Kakadu being declared in danger. So all those factors had come together and there we were in Paris at this meeting. The show down meeting it was billed as, of the Bureau and the Committee.

We were arguing that Kakadu be listed in danger. The Committees advisory bodies, the three formal bodies that provide advice on cultural and environmental management to the committee, supported our view for the forth time. They unanimously agreed that Jabiluka was and would cause danger and damage to Kakadu's World Heritage values The Australian government was there arguing long and hard joined by the Territory government and other players that this was a sovereign issue and the World Heritage had no right to be involved. So they were the pieces and we all came together in Paris.

Eric Miller: It wasn't listed in danger, that was quite a big blow to the environment movement and to the Gundjehmi ?

Dave Sweeney: Yes it was, it was a real disappointment, really like you go half way around the world and you want a result more than Robert Hill looking smug. But it was very poorly presented here as to what happened in Paris. Which is while we did not get an in danger listing nor did the mine get approved. The World Heritage Committee expressed grave concerns. The diplomatic language of grave concerns. Reservations, watching brief, monitoring, need for pre conditions etc. So what's happened is a nil all draw. Paris was not a loss for the greens and the blacks - rather a nil all draw.

The Australian government went there wanting to get the whole Kakadu issue kicked of the international World Heritage agenda forever. We went there wanting to get Kakadu inscribed on the register of World Heritage properties in danger. Now the fact is that neither party got what they wanted. We didn't an in danger listing, but nor did the government get this kicked off the international agenda. It's still on the World Heritage Committee agenda. The government have to report in April 2000 on steps being taken and on the status of the project. That is for consideration for the July 2000 World Heritage meeting. There is all the formal advisory bodies monitoring all of the reports and all progress of the site. There is an essential pre-condition now that all cultural mapping involve the traditional owners the Mirrar people. There is this whole series of procedural linkages between the World Heritage Committee and the Jabiluka Project.

So what has happened is basically we won the science and the Australian government brought the politics. They politicised the process, they played an extremely aggressive and hard line, they spent well over a million dollars, they visited all the capitals of the World Heritage Committee, John Howard wrote to all of the leaders of those nations. It was turned not from a cultural or environmental issue; it was turned into a matter of state policy. It is very hard to win the politics at that level. But what is pivotal for people to know is the world's foremost bodies agree that Jabiluka is, and Jabiluka will, cause harm. Every environmental and aboriginal argument about the cultural and natural impacts have been vindicated at the highest level. Now what we have to do is turn that vindication into effective national and international action that will stop Jabiluka.

Eric Miller: So basically we're where we were just a year ago with the World Heritage Commission watching and thing whether to put Kakadu in danger or not.

Dave Sweeney: Yes, the World Heritage has clearly has they reserve the right to list the region in danger. And they have clearly said they do not view the outcome of Paris as endorsement of either the federal government's approach or of the Jabiluka proposal. I think we need to see that very clearly and what we need to look at is…. The World Heritage initiative has been one step along the many layered campaign to stop Jabiluka. There has been a whole range of activities that tens of thousands of Australians in all sorts of ways, and in all different sorts of places have taken part in. The World Heritage initiative was one more. While it was disappointing, obviously it would have been better if the situation was cleaner and clearer and it was "Yes, Kakadu in now in danger because of ERA".

We know its in danger because of ERA, the international scientific community have accepted four times unanimously, at the highest level that it is in danger because of ERA. But it would have been nice if the politicians had had enough spine to rise to that was well. But yes, you are correct what we are looking at now in the Jabiluka campaign, as we move to the tail end of September 1999 is 42 months of the campaign, 42 - 43 months of the campaign. Jabiluka is a national and an international issue. The company still has reducing profit, reducing share price, reducing value. The campaign against Jabiluka is not going away, it is only going to grow, and 42 months into the campaign they have no where to mill, they have a whole host of obstacles, their name is getting more and more viewed as reviled as a poria company and we will continue and we will explore every option, including following up the World Heritage stuff until we stop this mine. That's what has to happen and that's what will happen.

Eric Miller: Now it was quite a bit of a shock for the environment groups and Gundjehmi. Jacky Katona is not on the Australian Conservation Foundation Council now; it did really put a shock through the environment movement and the Gundjehmi the T O"s of the area.

Dave Sweeney: In deed it did, and there is no doubt that that whole time in Paris and immediately after, and still now has been hard. Any relationship is tough, it has times where it is hard, but any relationship that has any length or durability in it as well or any long-term basis you work through that hardness. Everyone at a time of difficulty and a time of stress, and a time of disappointment for not realising what you wanting … and you had worked hard to achieve … But I also think key environment groups including ACF, including Friends of the Earth and others are saying that it is very clear that for practical reasons and for fundamental and ethical reasons the traditional owners and their representative body have a continuing and a key and a fundamental place in the campaign to stop the Jabiluka mine. We accept that fact, we accept the political responsibility and the political commitment to work with indigenous people cooperatively, respectively and effectively to try and defend culture and country.

That's been happening for over three years, it will continue to happen, there's going to be good times there's going to be bad times, along that road. But the fact of the matter is we are going to travel that road. We're pretty much back on track for doing that now. The question is how do we best work to ensure that what the real issue, and what the real threat, not only to the country but to the physical stability and health of the community and the cultural life and practice in that region. …. Which is aggressive non-sustainable, polluting resource extraction in the Kakadu region and the cultural and the environmental and the social dis-localtion that that causes - how can that be best addresses.

One thing that traditional owners, Gundjehmi, environment groups activists all agree on is that it can be best addressed by not adding to it. And it can be best addressed by stopping Jabiluka and that can be best addressed by ensuring that that mine doesn't go ahead, that there is not deals done with milling options or alternatives and that there is an unequivocal commitment to stopping the Jabiluka mine. That's shared by the national environment groups, its shared by Gundjehmi, its shared by regional activists and its shared by traditional owners.

Eric Miller: Now the mine is sort of in limbo at the moment being stopped for 18 months and the pressure is going to be on the Gundjehmi, now how do we best support them.

Dave Sweeney: Now I think you have put your finger very adeptly on the key point. What we are at now with this is where the company the surface works for Jabiluka. They effectively have amine but nowhere to mill it. They want to mill at the existing Ranger facility some 20 kilometres down the track. The traditional owners have a legal right of veto to preclude that. They have exercised that right. They have told the company they are not going to allow them to do that. So now the company has one other option, which is to build a stand-alone mill on the Jabiluka lease. They have permission to do that, but they don't have the money. It doesn't add up, they would need to have between 200 and 250 million Australian to do that. It would more than double the capital price of the project for the company at a time when its share price is down, at a time when the uranium market is in surplus and is depressed. Is doesn't make any economic sense. So they have said that they will have this twelve to 18 months, sort of care and maintenance period, where they just do bits and pieces of stuff around Jabiluka, but nothing too dramatic. While they concentrate on opening a dialogue with traditional owners to resolve the milling option question.

Well, the role of people now is to find culturally appropriate and sensitive ways of showing what is the reality. That 70% of people don't want Jabiluka to go ahead. So we need to find creative effective appropriate ways of conveying support that Mirrar enjoy in the wider Australian community for their opposition. And we need to ensure that we continue to maintain a focus that puts the pressure where it belongs. On the government and on the company and that we don't just allow this situation to turn into a series of closed door procedural discussions between one small over-stretched, and under resources Aboriginal corporation and one very large Australian resource company and one very large Australian government.

Because this is an issue that effects all Australians. And we need to ensure that the Aboriginal People fighting this know that we support them and that there is focus on the companies involved. On the EGM, the Extraordinary General Meeting for North Limited, on the impacts, the environmental impacts on the existing mine the Ranger mine, on the reality of the global nuclear market and what's happening, on the growth of alternatives as a means of generating power. All those things and a whole broad anti-nuclear debate in this country - is our role to push along.

Eric Miller: so its basically doing what we have been doing, which has been a really good shot up to this time and carrying on that and not feeling that things are OK at the moment/

Dave Sweeney: Exactly, very much and you are right it has been a good shot. I think that the company would be shocked at the extent and at the long-livity and the consistency of the opposition to the Jabiluka proposal. The vermanancy, the volume and the length of that opposition would have shocked the company. I don't think that the company would go down that path again, if they knew then what they know now. The other thing we should take significant heart from it the 1st of September 1999. We are passed that date now, if it was on the milk you would chuck it out.

The 1st of September 1999 was the date Jabiluka was to commence commercial operation. Now its miles away from commercial operation, it hasn't got a mill, and a mill is at least 50% of a mining operation. It hasn't got it and its not going to get it. So that has been the result of a range of thing which has included the continued and absolutely inspirational efforts of tens of thousands of Australians. From blockades to leafleting the suburbs of Perth, stalls, talks at schools, actions, banner drops, graffiti, the whole range of things. So from people having prays to people standing outside North Limited in St Kilda Road, "its not business as usual". There has been an extraordinary range of activities. Those activities continue, those activities has seriously delayed, frustrated this operation, seriously increased the cost of this operation, have given this issue enormous national and international prominence. And will continue to do all of those things and will continue to be the terrier around the heels of this company until it decides what it should have decided long ago that this project is in no ones interest.

Eric Miller: OK Dave, thank you very much.

Singing

Ila Marks: Blockaders singing at the Jabiluka mining lease in the Kakadu National Park last year at the blockade. And before that Eric was speaking to Dave Sweeney for the Australian Conservation Foundation. Dave was in Paris for the decision on whether to list Kakadu on the World Heritage in danger list in July this year.

Still on the Jabiluka campaign - Michael Del Monaco from Walkabout Jag is one of the hundreds of thousands of people who are doing something to make sure that the Jabiluka mine is stopped. He takes the Jabiluka campaign to where ever people and communities want to hear about it. He will go anywhere to show the Jabiluka video and speak to people. Eric spoke to Michael at his home in North Eastern Victoria.

Eric Miller: Michael, what is Walkabout JAG?

Michael: Walkabout JAG is may attempt at getting out information about the Jabiluka issue into the community, into indigenous communities, into schools, into country towns, being a country person I often think that country people are forgotten. So I put this proposition to the Gundjehmi Corporation and approved it. Some months down the track now … we are 60 to 70 presentations completed and thousands of people are now more aware about the issue in Kakadu National Park and the Mirrar people and the proposed Jabiluka mine.

Eric Miller: So you went to the blockade last year and came up with this plan?

Michael: Last year I went to the blockade. I went on one of those trips for two and a half weeks and ended up staying for three months. While I was there I because involved in doing police liaison and legal support. On returning home I was living 200 kilometres from Melbourne and occasionally going to blockades or actions in Melbourne. But I realised that there was something else to do. At Christmas time I had to have a realisation of what else I could do, being a country person, and the idea of doing the Walkabout Jabiluka Action Group came up. That was actually going out into the community, screening the Jabiluka documentary and discussing the issue. So in May this year after the approval of the Gundjehmi Aboriginal Corporation we went out on the road.

Ila Marks: The singing was again from protesters at the Jabiluka blockade last year. And before that Eric was speaking to Michael Del Monaco whose other persona is Walkabout Jag. You can contact Michael at his e-mail address which is walkaboutjag@hotmail.com Walkabout Jag also has a web address http://walkabout.jag.org.ua , or by phone 03 5727 9345.

That’s all from the Radioactive Show now being heard on the Community Radio Satellite Network. The Radioactive Show is produced in studios of 3CR. You are able to contact us if you have an issue you want raised or any comments about the programs, you will find us at ra3cr@hotmail.com And of course our web address www.sea-us.org.au

Transcript produced by Ila Marks - with much thanks!!!
Page last updated December 5, 1999.
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