3CR
 Community Radio 855am

THE RADIO-ACTIVE SHOW

With Eric Miller and Linda Marks

Saturday at 10.00am

15th May 1999

Hello and welcome to the Radioactive Show brought to you by the Sustainable Energy and Anti-Uranium Service. I’m Linda Marks and with me in the studio is Eric Miller. (Hello) The Radioactive Show is a weekly program bringing you news and information on Nuclear, Peace and Energy issues.

On today’s show we speak to Matt Fagan, Policy Officer for the Gundjehmi Aboriginal Corporation on ERA’s temporary cessation of work at the Jabiluka mine. Then we go to Mt Isa where Summit Resources have the lease on the Valhalla uranium deposit. Summit resources are bullying the Queensland Government into granting them a licence to mine their deposit. Sibyl MacLure from Friends of the Earth Brisbane will be giving us the dirt on that.

And it is a full year since India tested three nuclear weapons. John Hallam from Friends of the Earth Sydney has recently returned from India. He is going to give us his insights into what is happening there.

Now to our first story. On the 11th May, Energy Resources of Australia announced a temporary suspension of work at the Jabiluka uranium mine in Kakadu National Park. The company said the decision to sop work was because of technical and scheduling reasons. But the decision also opens the way for a cultural heritage management plan to be conducted. The Mirrar have been asking for the plan to be conducted and the World Heritage Committee requested it last December. ERA have been constructing a tunnel to the ore body for most of the year. Eric Miller asked Matt Fagan, Policy Officer for the Gundjehmi Aboriginal Corporation what ERA’s announcement was about.

Matt Fagan: Well, in fact ERA have announced that they will cease work for a period of 3 days starting from Tuesday. On Tuesday they will reach the boundary of the long identified Boyweg-Almudj site complex. What they have put to the Mirrar is that they will cease work for 3 days in order for discussions to take place on the Cultural Heritage Management Plan. Now as most of the listeners would probably be aware, Jabiluka uranium mine construction has been proceeding now for 12 months without any plan for limiting the impacts on cultural values. And it is something that UNESCO found abhorrent and it is something that the entire Australian public should find abhorrent. Now, it will take a matter of months to complete a Cultural Heritage Management Plan, not 3 days, and it’s a joke that ERA would put to the Mirrar that they are willing to stop construction for 3 days in order for that plan to take place.

Eric Miller: So do you regard this as some kind of PR stunt?

Matt Fagan: That’s all it is. It’s an attempt. The Mirrar have made a genuine attempt, a genuine offer to ERA to participate in this Cultural Heritage Management Plan if ERA made the totally reasonable step also of not going in and destroying the central subject of that plan. The Boyweg-Almudj sacred site complex is a very significant area and would be a central subject to a Cultural Heritage Management Plan. What ERA is maintaining is that they should be able to carry out works in that area before the plan has even commenced and that is ludicrous. It runs counter to every principal of natural justice or sound public policy.

Eric Miller: This must show that ERA is right out on a limb and they are going to come under a lot of fire when they go to the World Heritage Commission.

Matt Fagan: Yes, of course. ERA desecrating a sacred site complex is going to be considered by the World Heritage Committee to be an act of extreme belligerence and irresponsibility. It must take to the point of Kakadu being almost certainly being declared in danger. But I’m sure your listeners would understand that it would be rather empty victory for the Mirrar at UNESCO if a key aspect of their cultural heritage had been desecrated in the process.

Chanting: Kakadu is sacred, Kakadu is sacred. In solidarity we stand together, in solidarity we stand together.

Eric Miller: I suppose it will be a ………… to the government that they are allowing this happen at this stage.

Matt Fagan: Precisely. People should hold the Australian Government in contempt. It’s sitting on its hands. It’s watching these series of events unfold. It’s been told on numerous occasions including personal meetings between the Senior Traditional Owner and the Minister that this will have severe consequences on the Aboriginal community. He simply doesn’t care. He is watching it happen. He’s being kept fully informed at every step by both the company and by us and he has decided to do nothing whatsoever even though Minister Hill and Minister Herron have complete power stop construction at any time they wish.

Chanting: Kakadu is sacred, Kakadu is sacred. In solidarity we stand together, in solidarity we stand together.

Linda Marks: And we are listening to blockaders at the gate of the Jabiluka during the blockade last year and before that we were listening to Matt Fagan who is Policy Officer with the Gundjehmi Aboriginal Corporation.

Now we go to Queensland where the ALP Beattie Government has so far kept to its party policy of not allowing any new uranium mines to open in Queensland. However, summit Resources who are part owners with Resolute limited, want to develop the Valhalla uranium deposit north of Mt. Isa. Eric Miller spoke to Sibyl MacLure of Friends of the Earth, Brisbane.

Sibyl MacLure: Summit Resources and the other company, Resolute, they both own the Valhalla uranium lease 50/50% each and that’s just outside Mt. Isa. They gained exploration licences a few years ago and now they want to develop and actually mine uranium on the site there.

Eric Miller: You are in the extraordinary position where you have a government that is stopping them. The Beattie Government is saying that it won’t allow uranium mining in that state.

Sibyl MacLure: That’s right! They won’t grant mining leases nor will allow processing of uranium in the State of any sort and they are unlikely to change that policy in the meantime.

Eric Miller: So is your Mineral and Energy Minister, Tony McGrady, is he an avid anti-nuclear activist or what’s pushing them to take this stance?

Sibyl MacLure: I don’t think that Mr McGrady is personally anti-nuclear. He is taking a very neutral stance and he is coming out with phrases such as, ‘there are a number of obstacles preventing this company from developing this uranium mine.’ Companies are seeing these obstacles as not technical obstacles but political obstacles. And they are quite upset with the ALP taking that position and they are trying to get the Government to change their attitude on uranium mining. So as far as Tony McGrady is concerned, he is actually the minister and it is his seat up around Mt Isa region. Just reading between the lines of what he is saying is just seems that he is not against uranium mining per se but he is having to toe the Government line.

Eric Miller: So the Queensland Labor Party has some strong anti-nuclear grass roots people in it?

Sibyl MacLure: Well, yes. Following on from the Federal Labor position of the three mines policy that was supposed to phase out uranium mining eventually and the Queensland ALP Government, they are following that Federal ‘No Uranium Development’ policy. But the Summit company have been quite outspoken against the State ALP position and they are calling the people on the State ALP’s position draconian and calling for it to be changed. They are saying that it is even stricter that the Federal ALP’s position.

Eric Miller: This has been going on for quite a few months now and the Government is still holding strong.

Sibyl MacLure: Yes! Round about February, I think it was, Summit Resources had a huge knock back from the Government and everyone thought, right, they must be going home now, they’d be crazy to continue this. It had become apparent that they had lost the battle. Beattie and McGrady were holding firm on their position opposing a new uranium mine. However, just a few weeks ago now, Summit came out again criticising the Government and they were threatening to actually sue the Queensland Government for loss of revenue for not being able to develop their uranium lease. And they are actually committing themselves to an 8 million dollar feasibility study on the Valhalla uranium deposit. It was a bit of a surprise really having that old can of worms opened up again. The managing director of Valhalla, Mr Alan Eggars has come out to say that they have a few alternatives. One is that they sit out and wait for a different government to be elected in Queensland. All they have to wait for a Liberal Government to come in and it’s open slather. Or another option the have is to try a gain the Queensland Government’s backing, which they are trying to do through coercion and force and threats of legal action. Or the third is to try and seek complete compensation for loss of investment and potential earnings.

Eric Miller: Now, the Beattie Government is quite entrenched. It doesn’t seem that they would lose the next election so this company could have a long wait for a Liberal Government to come in. So is this company is going to make the shareholders pay quite a bit of money it they are putting all this extra money into it when it has already had the knock back from the Government and they are not allowing uranium mining in that State.

Sibyl MacLure: Yes, it’s rather strange because they are prepared to spend 8 million dollars in a feasibility study. Now the projected income from the mine if it were to go ahead would be between 150 – 200 million dollars. So that is quite a sizeable proportion that they are prepared to outlay, 8 million dollars for a feasibility study. And there is a very high risk that they will still fail under the current political climate to actually proceed with developing that uranium. Mind you, there has been quite a bit of exploration and testing done at Valhalla. They have been getting some kind of results from the ore body. So they are quite keen. It’s the third largest undeveloped uranium deposit in Australia at the moment. And again, in the whole context of Australia’s uranium, the uranium industry is really trying to get Queensland’s or Australia’s international uranium market up there and be quite competitive with the rest. So they are trying to get everything that they can to feed into that international picture.

Eric Miller: There are other companies operating in Queensland that have packed up and gone?

Sibyl MacLure: Yes. Anaconda had leases on 3 uranium deposits around Townsville. They were the Ben Lomond, Moreen and Newcastle Range deposits. And in 1998 they were getting very active in developing those deposits and then the Beattie Government got elected and they have actually withdrawn completely from furthering the developments of those deposits. The reasons they gave are financial problems and also the policies of the Government. So it only goes to show that we can head them off so to speak if there is enough of a fuss made and the companies will give up eventually. But, of course, as long as uranium is in the ground there will always be people to come along and try and sniff it out. So you have to keep vigilant all the time.

Eric Miller: So what is FoE Brisbane doing and do they need support in combating the development of this deposit?

Sibyl MacLure: Friends of the Earth, Brisbane at the moment is moving into new offices so we are not really operating from any space at the moment so that makes life really hard when you are trying to do some campaigning work. But we are really keen to get onto the back of this uranium mining in the State because we are one of the lucky ones that we don’t have any mines operating in the State at the moment and we do have an ALP Government that does have a strong anti-nuclear policy. I think what the feeling is at the moment that it is time for us to forge a really strong anti-nuclear movement in the State because there is a lot of support in the community and in other organisations. So we are trying to consolidate a strong anti-uranium movement so that even if the ALP does get voted out at the next election which isn’t looking likely, that the community opposition to nuclear development would be so strong that even a Liberal Government would find it very hard to allow such developments

Linda Marks: That music was ‘Half Life or Holy Life’ by Tink and Peters and before that we heard from Sibyl MacLure from Friends of the Earth in Brisbane.

For people in Queensland wanting to help fight this campaign in Queensland, you can ring the Friends of the Earth office in Brisbane on 07 3846 5793.

On May 11th last year, India tested 3 nuclear devices. International monitors estimated the yield at 15 – 20 kilotons and it was reported that the Indian people were delighted. John Hallam from Friends of the Earth, Sydney has recently returned from India. Eric Miller asked him about the reaction of India’s people to the test last year:

John Hallam: Paradoxically, one of the effects of the Indian nuclear tests has actually been to strengthen the Indian anti-nuclear movement. One of the things that we found when we were in India last was that a lot more people were a lot more worried than they have ever been and that this stretched from the anti-nuclear weapons movement right across also to the anti-nuclear power movement. So, for example, there is a lot more concern about the plans to construct two Russian VVR type nuclear reactors down at the Southern tip of India.

It’s also got to be remembered that the prospect of a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan is something which is very, very disturbing indeed. The decision makers are going to have something between 3 and 7 minutes in which to make decisions. That, of course, is quite impossible. At the same time, you have the situation where there has been consistent bad relationship between India and Pakistan. So if the Indians and the Pakistanis do weaponise and deploy their nuclear weapons, and if, paradoxically, they do institute a centralised command and control system, then this will actually destabilise the system extremely. You will have that 3 – 7 minute response time. The whole thing will probably be computerised and automated and really in such a situation, a nuclear exchange is inevitable. Now, if that happens, it could get up to 200 million people dying in about 10 days.

Eric Miller: Have the Indian people seen the futility of developing nuclear weapons?

John Hallam: Well, a lot of people feel that nuclear weapons are basically taking bread out of the mouths of the poor. And there certainly has been a cry for bread, or India’s case, a cry for ‘Chapatti and Not Bombs.’ That has been very, very strong. There have been massive demonstrations, particularly in Calcutta but also in Delhi and Bombay and Madras against weaponisation and against nuclearisation. But on the other hand, there is still this faction that thinks that nuclear weapons represents strength, represents Shakti in some kind of way. And the sympathisers of right wing parties like the BJP and the Sinfeigner have got ideas that would make your blood run cold.

Eric Miller: And there has been a walk across India hasn’t there?

John Hallam: Yes, it’s happening now. It will go on til August. It’s going from the site at Pokrin to the place of the Buddha’s enlightenment. That is going to be a very interesting thing.

Eric Miller: The people at the test site, they have been disregarded haven’t they?

John Hallam: Yes they have. And there has been a significant health impact at the test site and there have been a lot more cancer and leukemia than there were before. Farm animals have also been affected and the people in the villages near the test site feel they have been used as guinea pigs.

Eric Miller: This is the same as when the French and the British and Americans were testing…

John Hallam: It certainly is. The local people are always the guinea pigs. It is usually relatively defenceless people. In the case of the Russians it was indigenous people. It has been indigenous people in Australia and in America it has been a combination of indigenous people and the Mormon people who have lived in towns and villages downwind of the test sites there.

Eric Miller: India was saying that she would sign the International Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty, is this still a possibility?

John Hallam: There is a possibility that India may sign the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. It would be a reassuring step in the right direction if she did sign. But on the other hand it is very much closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. It gives a pretty terrible example to say, ‘OK, we’ll test, we’ll weaponise, then we’ll sign.’ The treaty was actually supposed to stop weapons proliferation. It’s and end run around the whole of the treaty if countries do that.

Eric Miller: When India tested its nuclear weapons, it became a country that the Americans and …

John Hallam: Yes, it’s India’s way of thumbing its nose at the world and saying you can’t ignore us. But in terms of what it does to the ordinary Indian people who lack the basic bits of infrastructure, who lack proper public transport, who lack public toilets, education, decent accommodation, those sorts of things, it is an outrageous distortion of priorities.

Eric Miller: Will this be a flowering of the anti-nuclear movement in India?

John Hallam: Well, they are not going to find it easy. People in India are very much subject to a lot of forms of repression. A lot of people I spoke to in India are sympathetic but didn’t want to have their heads kicked in and didn’t want to spend long periods of time languishing in very unpleasant gaols if they did things. People have, non the less been willing to do things. But life as an anti-nuclear activist in India, as you might imagine, is not the easiest thing.

Eric Miller: Thank you John.

Linda Marks: That music was ‘Silo’ by Judy Small and before that Eric Miller was speaking to John Hallam from Friends of the Earth, Sydney. And last week we talked about how the Jabiluka approval process have been referred to a Senate Committee and that Senate Committee is called the Environment, Communications, Information Technology and Arts References Committee and we talked about a paper that was being prepared to help you write that submission. That paper is now available at Friends of the Earth or the Australian Conservation Foundation and you’d better be quick because we have to get these submissions by the 21st of this month. Send your submissions to the Senate Environment, Communications, Information Technology and Arts References Committee, Suite 1.59, Parliament House, Canberra, ACT, 2600.

Eric, do we have time for a bit of news?

Eric Miller: Yes. This comes from Paul Brown in the Guardian and he says that Denmark are the world leaders in wind technology and she is going to build a series of wind generators, a wind farm at sea to generate half of Denmark’s power. This plant will mean that the Danes will be able to cut their greenhouse emissions by 8% which is what they have committed themselves to doing. Denmark has conducted tests and experiments on these wind generators and they have exceeded their expectations and by building the wind farm, they will generate as much power as 8 medium sized coal fired stations. The Danes say that these will be cheaper than a coal fired power station and about the same price as a gas fired power station without the disadvantage of producing carbon dioxide. And of course it would much cheaper than nuclear energy. And Denmark is a small country. I don’t know why Australia can’t.

Linda Marks: Good news for Denmark.

Eric Miller: Well, that’s all the time we have for the Radioactive Show today Linda, so it’s goodbye from Eric.

Linda Marks: And it’s goodbye from Linda.

Transcript produced by Linda Marks - with much thanks!!!
Page last updated September 1, 1999.
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