3CR
 Community Radio 855am

THE RADIO-ACTIVE SHOW

With Eric Miller and Linda Marks

Saturday at 10.00am

9th January 1999

Good morning, this is the Radio Active Show brought to you by the Sustainable Energy and Anti-Uranium Service. I'm Linda Marks and with me in the studio is Eric Miller. (Good Morning) The Radio Active Show is a weekly program bringing you news and information on Nuclear, Peace and Energy issues.

On today's show we hear from John Hallam from Friends of the Earth in Sydney and he speaks on initiatives to rid the world of nuclear weapons. We also catch up with Dimity Hawkins, and she is going to tell us what's been happening to those 527 people who were arrested at Jabiluka last year. Dimity Hawkins is from JAILS, Jabiluka Arrestee Information and Legal Support.

Since the end of the cold war the threat of nuclear annihilation has not gone away and there are still tens of thousands of nuclear weapons ready to be fired and many thousands of people all over the world are working towards nuclear disarmament. But things have stalled over the last year. Hear is John Hallam from Friends of the Earth, Sydney, talking at the Nuclear Free Australia Forum held in Melbourne on the 5th and 6th of last December:

John Hallam: Weapons proliferation is something we tend to leave to the peace groups and anti-nuclear weapons groups but it is absolutely central to our whole concern about why we are in this business in the first place. I know that for me the prospect of global incineration was definitely a fairly powerful motivating force.

We have seen a number of fairly key initiatives take place in the area of weapons proliferation and it has looked for short periods at least as if the world was perilously close to actually getting rid of nuclear weapons. This would have been great. It would mean that we would no longer have to think about whether or not we were going to have a computer failure in Idaho or Siberia somewhere that had the potential to effectively extinguish all life on this planet above the complexity of cockroaches.

What we have seen instead is first, the advisory opinion back in 1996 of the International Court of Justice to the effect that nuclear weapons, the use or threat of nuclear weapons is illegal. The unanimous advisory opinion that the major nuclear powers are legally obliged to conduct negotiations and they are obliged to conduct them within a limited and speedy timeframe to get rid of their nuclear weapons stocks. And then we have seen complete stonewalling, complete unwillingness on behalf of the nuclear weapons states to actually do that. We have seen statements from, particularly the UK that absolutely boggles the mind in the way they dismissed the judgement of the highest legal authority on the planet. They said that it was of no application to them and the doctrine on mutual nuclear deterrents, which is based on mutual assured destruction, otherwise known as MAD, this judgement did not apply to them. There have been a number of responses to that. Unfortunately, the most dramatic of those responses was the decision of the Indian Government after the United States conducted a number of sub-critical tests, to take a further nuclear test. Remember they already had one back in 1974. They would then proceed to weaponisation of their nuclear warhead. This was, of course, immediately followed by the Pakistani nuclear test. It has been known for quite some years that both those countries had this weapons capability.

Perhaps we should get into perspective who has done how many nuclear tests. The United States has conducted over 1,000 nuclear tests, and it continues to conduct nuclear tests that it calls sub-critical nuclear tests at a rate of roughly one every three months at the moment.

Linda Marks: That (music played during the interview) was Tim Leary with 'Who's Next?' and before that we were listening to John Hallam. One of the main forces for nuclear disarmament in the latter part of last year was the New Agenda Initiative sponsored by 25 countries in the United Nations. Part of its agenda to rid the world of nuclear weapons included the banning of sub-critical nuclear weapons testing and taking nuclear weapons off the hair trigger alert. Back to John Hallam.

John Hallam: The New Agenda Initiative is an agenda that will have been passed by the United Nations General Assembly yesterday. It was sponsored by some 25 nations that included New Zealand but did not include Australia. It also included the usual list of suspects including Sweden. It included also the Canadians.

The New Agenda Initiative was extremely interesting because it adopted a very moderate, very balanced kind of approach, an approach that was deliberately designed to make it hard to dismiss. Hard for the pro-nuclear deterrents freaks, the Mutually Assured Destruction people to say that this is some loopy initiative you might expect from Cuba or North Korea or Morocco or whoever. A very respectable line up of countries pushed it. When it last came before a committee vote, roughly half the NATO nations who were having their arms twisted by the United States and the United Kingdom to vote against this resolution, though they couldn't bring themselves to vote for the resolution, abstained. That includes Belgium, Germany, Norway and a swag of smaller countries, including Canada (which is far from a small country and is absolutely key to the whole NATO set up). What we are seeing is the whole doctrine of nuclear deterrents starting to come apart at the seams.

There has been a considerable lobbying effort amongst Australian Peace Groups and Anti-Weapons Groups, amongst the groups like People For Nuclear Disarmament, to push Mr Downer to vote in favour of this resolution. There was a resolution carried in the Senate that I was the author of, that actually got passed that called upon Downer to vote for the resolution. I do not know for certain which way the vote went last Friday night, because I wasn't near my e-mail, but my bet is that we will have abstained on it.

Where it will go from here will be in a number of directions. There will be a push for the Americans and the Russians to finalise START two and to start on START three. There will be a push that we have been pushing for some time for countries to start ratifying the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. There is an outside possibility that the hold outs against the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, that is, the Indians and the Pakistanis, may actually be prepared to sign it or to do something that is so close to signing it. That will mean that it will no longer be an obstacle for the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty coming into force. The Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, that is, the treaty that bans further explosive nuclear tests, though it is carefully framed as a result of intense pressure by the nuclear weapons establishments of the United States, Russia and France, particularly United States and Russia, to allow sub-critical nuclear testing. The Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty only actually comes into force officially when some 40 named countries that include Israel, India, Pakistan, actually do sign it. And that makes it, if those countries refuse to sign it, that makes it almost impossible for it to come into force.

I presume the United States will continue to conduct sub-critical tests. I presume that opposition to those sub-critical nuclear tests will continue to grow. I assume that indigenous groups and anti-nuke groups in Nevada will continue to do things. A couple of people I know locked themselves together in front of the door of the United States Department of Energy in Las Vegas immediately before the last sub-critical nuclear test.

There has been a little bit of the same thing over the New Agenda Initiative as well. A friend of mine in Belgium went on a hunger strike in front of the door of the Belgium Foreign Ministry and was recently joined by 13 Belgium parliamentarians.

Linda Marks: As you heard, the Australian Government is not really working towards nuclear disarmament despite the rhetoric. One of the most frightening aspects of nuclear weapons is the Y2K bug. John was asked what the Y2K bug meant to the deployment of nuclear weapons.

John Hallam: The Russians have adopted a 'fix on failure' approach to the Y2K bug. This is basically suicidal because everything is going to fail at one minute passed midnight of the year 1999-2000. The problems associated with nuclear control and command systems in the year 2000, I think, are really hard to evaluate. There is definitely very strong suggestions being made, even in the military of both the United States and the Russians, that the suggestion in the New Agenda Coalition resolution that weapons be taken off hair trigger alert at least be adopted in the months preceding and after Y2K.

Linda Marks: That was John Hallam from Friends of the Earth in Sydney.

Palm Sunday Rally is on the 28th March this year, so get out your diaries and put Palm Sunday into them. This is an initiative from the Jabiluka Action Group and the Campaign for International Co-operation and Disarmament (CICD). They have had a couple of meetings and agreed on some broad themes and demands: Stop Jabiluka Mine! End Nuclear Threat! Land Rights Now! They are asking people in community groups to join them in organising Palm Sunday this year. You are invited to send a representative to participate in the decision making and organisation of the event and the more community groups involved in Palm Sunday the better the Rally will be. If you want to get in contact with the Jabiluka Action Group or CICD, they will be able to tell you when the next meeting is. Phone number for JAG is 9419 6660.

The Jabiluka Blockade was highly successful in bringing the proposed Jabiluka uranium mine to the notice of Australians and to people all over the world. It also allowed people to show their opposition to the project and thousands of people went to the blockade and over 500 people were arrested. Most of the court cases arising from those arrests are coming up before the court in Darwin now. Dimity Hawkins is coordinator for the Victorian JAILS, Jabiluka Arrestee Information and Legal Support. Eric asked her how many people were arrested at the Jabiluka Blockade last year:

Dimity Hawkins: In 1998 there were 527 altogether. There were two mass arrests, one of 106 people and one of 118 people, and there were multiple smaller arrests, but that could have been 20 people at a time or sometimes it was just one person. It was a very eventful time, legally.

Eric Miller: So I suppose most of these were for trespass but there were all kinds of arrests?

Dimity Hawkins: The charges varied. They tried to slap everything on everyone to start with and some of the charges were found untenable in court that meant that they were now longer able to charge people with those things. That was most particularly forcible entry that they charged just about everyone with at the beginning, and victimisation of employment that they were bandying about big time, but they actually lost that in court so they were not able to maintain that. So then they went back and charged people with trespass and they've been adding on charges after the fact before they go to court. At the moment they have been adding on damage to mines. That carries with it a maximum penalty of a couple of years in gaol.

Eric Miller: They have been quite vindictive against these people, even now.

Dimity Hawkins: Absolutely! They were really hesitant to, for a lot of these people this is the first time they have been arrested so this is the first charge that they are up on. For a lot of them they shouldn't have had convictions recorded. But they have been recording convictions for just about everybody. They have not recorded a couple of convictions for people who pleaded guilty and who had squeaky-clean references and reasons, they were working overseas, and that sort of thing. They have been really harsh, the legal system up in Darwin, they haven't cut a break for anyone really.

Eric Miller: For people who live in Melbourne, this has made it expensive for them to travel up to Darwin?

Dimity Hawkins: Oh, yes! It has been very expensive! And a lot of people are making the effort. A lot of people have got back to Melbourne with every intention of going back to face their charges. And they have actually found that things happen, life goes on and they have found that they haven't been able to go back up to face charges. So those people have generally been changing their plea to guilty. Which is not a bad thing, I would feel happy being guilty for trying to stop a uranium mine. If they find Yvonne Margarula, the Senior Traditional Owner of the land guilty for walking on her own land, what chance have we got? Quite a lot of people are going back up, but a lot of people are finding that they have no choice financially but change their plea to guilty. It changes because then they don't have to pay travel costs, there are a lot of reasons why people choose to do that.

Eric Miller: A lot of the cases are just coming up now, over this New Year period.

Dimity Hawkins: Yes, a lot are coming up now. There was a lot in December, the last half of December started to back up, but January and February are absolutely jam packed. The courts are up in Darwin are getting very, very sick of us all. But that's all right. They go right through until May. There are a lot of court cases on right up until May.

Eric Miller: What kinds of fines are people getting?

Dimity Hawkins: It depends. Some people who are pleading guilty are getting as low as $200 fines which is pretty low. The maximum penalty they can give is $2,000 so it started off being quite low. When the first arrests were made people were getting penalties that were quite low but they have gone up to as much as $650. Then you also pay victim's levy, then if you travel up there you have to pay your fare and your accommodation and all of that sort of thing, so it ends up being very expensive for a lot of people. But a lot of people are making the effort, and that's good.

Eric Miller: For travelling up there and accommodation, would this come to over $1,000.

Dimity Hawkins: Oh, absolutely! Around Christmas time when we were looking at what the fares were to fly up, the cheapest fare you could get was about $800. Then you had to be there for two weeks in between your mention and your hearing. So you would have to pay for accommodation for that time unless you had friends up there. It was ending up easily over $1,000 to travel and stay up there. Then you have a fine of anything up to $650 on top of that for the charge of pleading guilty or not guilty to trespass. So it's pretty expensive.

Eric Miller: Making them come up for their hearing, and for most people, it's their first charge, they really shouldn't have had to come up for that.

Dimity Hawkins: No! The response has been extreme. It has been completely disproportionate to the 'offence' as they like to call it. There are people like Alvie Booth who is 92 years old, she's up for trespass charges in February. We have 5 young people up on mandatory sentencing charges. They are looking at gaol sentences of 2 weeks. This is for locking onto equipment in the compound. This is an extreme thing, they are charging them with property damage and meanwhile they are digging a uranium mine! It's absolutely ridiculous. They have completely overdone their response….

(Recording of Jabiluka action)

Chanting: Hey, hey, we are singing the song of Jabiluka

Police: You want to be arrested?

Eric Miller: So legal support is really crucial at this stage. You really have got quite a few things set up.

Dimity Hawkins: Yes, we have set up JAILS, Jabiluka Arrestee Information and Legal Support in Melbourne because we were quite concerned. A lot of the people are quite young and it is there first time that they have been arrested and that can be quite a scary thing in itself. And people don't know a lot about the legal system. The legal system is very intimidating, it's meant to be that way. It's a system that is meant to alienate us. So that's why we set up JAILS, to empower people, to inform people about what they were doing. JAILS has since been set up in just about every state in Australia. We have also set up a National Office in Darwin itself. There is a legal fund that people have been contributing to quite generously to help support the arrestees and so forth. We also have a web site now.

But people still have to take responsibility for themselves. JAILS was not set up to take away that responsibility. JAILS was set up to empower that responsibility. And a lot of people are doing that really well. A lot of people have taken that and run with it. They are really excited by the opportunity to be resourced and to know about legal stuff themselves. We have run lots and lots of workshops down here. They are starting to run lots of workshops up in Darwin so that people who arrive, before they go to court can get the latest updates, they can know what's happening, they can figure out strategies and defences, and all of that stuff. So it's exciting.

Eric Miller: And they can get in contact with JAILS through the Jabiluka Action Group office in Melbourne.

Dimity Hawkins: Yes, and the number is 9417 6660.

Eric Miller: Thank you very much.

Linda Marks: That was Eric speaking to Dimity Hawkins who is Coordinator of Victorian JAILS, Jabiluka Arrestee Information and Legal Support. The people who were arrested up at Jabiluka got arrested with their eyes open and their heads screwed on. They knew what they were in for, but if you would like to help them out you can sent money to the Jabiluka Defence Fund and I think that you sent that money to ACF. Any support would be gratefully appreciated.

The JAILS National Office number is 08 8941 6708 and the web site number is Jabiluka.net/legal/">www.Jabiluka.net/legal/.

Send some money to these very brave people who are continuing the fight to close that Jabiluka mine up there in Darwin in the courts.

Eric, there is news on Beverley…

Eric Miller: Senator Hill, our Minister for the Environment, so-called, agreed that Beverley could go ahead under certain provisos, they have to do a few more tests to make sure that the aquifer that the ore body is in isn't connected to the Great Artesian Basin. But actually he gave the go ahead for the Beverley mine and now it is for the Minister for Minerals and Energy, to give the go ahead and we have a third uranium mine up and running. Beverley has already a pilot plant there, it will be within this year that they will be able to get that plant under full production. That is a very worrying situation. This Government does it on Christmas Eve when everybody is trying to have a good time over Christmas, this Government gives us a new uranium mine as a Christmas present. So, that is a very worrying situation for us to contend with this year.

Linda Marks: It certainly is. Next week's show will be on the Federal Government's push to build a radio-active waste dump in Northern South Australia. But there are plenty of things that people can do: get along to demonstrations at North Ltd, send money to help the Jabiluka Arrestees to fight their cases in Darwin and get along to the Palm Sunday Rally.

Eric Miller: That's all we have time for in the Radio Active Show this week, Linda, so it's good bye from Eric.

Linda Marks: And it's good bye from Linda.

Transcript produced by Linda Marks - with much thanks!!!
Page last updated February 1, 1999.
Back to the Radio-Active Show Archivesor Back to the SEA-US Front Page

Copyright © SEA-US 1999